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Forum:Adding Producers
Okay we don't really have grounds for adding Producers but we all still work to some idea of what does or does not make a good producer. Still we do work to some practices; The basics of adding a Producer *First things first; never ever create a Producer page for yourself. If you add it yourself we take it as your just showing off, that your using us for a advertising space or pretty much want to look more impression then you are, etc, etc there are a ton of reasons for not letting anyone just add themselves. If you want to be added, you have to request it. Its likely we'll add you sooner or later anyway since we do add Producers who impress us. This has pretty much been in place since the days when we catered for fanmades. Signing up just to post your work is also banned. Your not an "editor" until you've done the time as one (I can't phrase this any other way) *If your a amateur, we can still add you, half the Producers in Japan are amateur Doujin music makers anyway. Might be more likely to be added if you are using a relatively quieter Vocaloid like Clara because you stand out more, but thats not 100% certainity. Reason being is we like to show things about all Vocaloids here, and when a quieter Vocaloid is made we have to rumage around gfor just 1 producer using that vocal. *It doesn't matter if you do covers or original works only or a mixture of both. BUT we really don't like to add Producers who only do covers of popular and well known VSQ files because anyone can do that and call themselves a "P" for doing so. Plus these tend to be the songs with the least amount of work put into them, it takes a lot of effort for for it to stand out. *Producers added normally have a quality or standard and we add them so other fans can see what everyone else has done and compare themselves to it. Most Producers added have earnt merit or fame through hours of hard work or have what is considered impressive pieces. For this reason we can't say things like "you need X amount of subscribers..." or so forth, because popularity is not a sign of quality. However, we will add trougher guidelines on work added if people abuse this though. Personnelly? I like giving new producers half a chance so I'm praying it never amounts to that and some veteran Japanese producers don't have much work at all up. The one thing you should know Here is the single most important thing to take note; If you use Pocaloid or any other form of illegal version of this software then walk away, we don't want to and cannot assoicate ourselves with you. If you pretend you don't have it and then are discovered to have it, you face imediate removal and will> be added to the '''Blacklist.' To cut a long story short; Unlike Vocaloid Otaku forums (who since they assoicated themselves with PowerFX and Zero-G can't link to Pocaloid) or Vocaloidism, we just can't smile and look the other way and pretend it doesn't happen. We know its going on, we wrote a page on it for a reason, but thats not the point, a slip up means instant banment from the wikia and blacklisting. Blacklisting, unlike the UTAU wikia, pretty much means for good here, unless you can supply evidence you actually bought the software and are going down the honest path. There simply is no ifs and buts on this one. Even if the wikia agreement isn't taken into account, we still have to support the studios and Producers, so... Yeah... As I said no ifs and buts on this one. I have no doubts some of our videos are from Pocaloid users up on the wikia. All I can say in response to this is that if you must insist on being a pirate instead of a honest fan, then please play it smart because the wikia will not be happy with you when you slip up. Also, be aware others read your comments on Facebook and Youtube and Deviantart... Etc... Etc... They do sometimes share with the rest of the fandom what you are up to, so you can slip up vey easily without realising it. Finally, if you get caught out here... Be aware that you might find yourself in turn banned from Piapro and spammed on Nico nico Douga by the Japanese Vocaloid fans. And furthermore, if you have covers, you pretty much invite the Japanese fans to contact the groups and labels to attack your videos and remove them on the grounds of copyright infringement. This has happened a few times now already... Don't let it happen to you. Also something else worth noting; save the wikia the drama act. Do not act dumb or protest against your use of Pocaloid or whatever or bombard us with lies, whining or excuses, language barrier is also not a excuse (we can soon enough find a native speaker if we have to). Honestly; I myself have more respect with the fan who says "Congrats, you caught me; well played" as in my opinion its better to accept you get caught with diginity then to make a further make a fool of yourself by acting like a child about it. That means if you go the honest path the wikia staff here will happily deal with you more, if you whine consider yourself not likely to ever return to the wikia pages. Because if things go sour again, we simply don't want to deal with you. Pretty much though, if you get caught, appear to go straight, then turn out to be no improvements you don't ever return... But we will still welcome you here as part of the community despite that. People tend to think blacklisting is the end of the world, but honestly... We're not the fashion police here all we can do is not link to you, we can't remove your videos or break your computer, murder your family and send your pet cat to the kitty litter box in the sky... Etc.^_- Thats pretty much all else I have to say on this subject, I'm not here to lecture "you shouldn't use Pocaloid" because with software I'm aware that sometimes the illegal users help sell the legal version and I've been on the net long enough to know the pros and cons of illegal software. I'm mentioning because out of all the things I do here as editor and beaucrat, dealing with Pocaloid is my single biggest headache and I'd rather not deal with it but I have to. What about UTAU? We don't deal with UTAU, because thats not our grounds for interest. Thats an entirely different fandom and UTAU and Vocaloids issues are not identical. The only time we cross paths is in those rare cases where someone does something stupid like making a UTAU based on Lola's voicebank... Then pretending they didn't do it by hiding the evidence.... Then proceed to lie through their teeth about doing it... Yeah... We've seen all manners of Fandumb on the wikia as it happens. Pretty much the bottom line on UTAU is that if your a UTAU producer you jsut don't belong on this wikia even if you are playing fair. I count "UTAU users" as meaning anyone with more then half their work being based on UTAU rather then Vocaloid though that rough guidelines might move for various reasons. Just a minor note I forgot to mention this, sorry for the append. If you do get added to the wikia, we only use "P" if the person earnt that "P". Otherwise your known by your youtube name (minus "P" if it includes it). This has come up before, "P" is a honorifix given to producers who impress others on Piapro and Nico nico douge, its a tradition from another fandom that got included in the Vocaloid one. You can't simply name yourself "Anon-P", you write a lot of songs and the NND community will then vote one in. And despite being a westerner, well, you can still earn that precious "P" because CircusP and several others are proof its possible. Its just a lot harder due to language barrier. I can say if you do try and get it best advice; always include sub titles as it lets the Japanese watches look up the meaning of your lyrics. Many a time I've seen "no speak English" on folks' songs (or in the case of Japanese lyrics, a note they can't hear what the Vocaloid is singing about). ^_^' Discussion Well this is an interesting page. Another point is: *Learn the template. *Put in the right categories. *Put the song titles, singer, and date. Other than that, my thoughts: *When I first came here, most producers I like aren't in here. *Their works don't even reach 10,000 views. (Yeah, I add ones I like and ignore big Ps who aren't in here like Last Note and Kemu, but someone else added that) *''I enjoy them even though majority doesn't. *My point is. What is "the standard of this wiki"? "Producers added normally have a quality or standard and we add them so other fans can see what everyone else has done and compare themselves to it." <--- I don't understand. Unknown.System 15:55, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :We're missing a LOT of producers still, I can't help sort this one out as @I tend to know songs not producers of songs like an awful lot of fans. We've never really discussed "quality" and it tends to vary a lot. Thats partly why I choose to start this announcement to see everyone ones' reaction as well as lay down a few things. The situation is this, back in 2004 songs were a lot less quality then some of the songs run off now, because technology moved on (sound familair right? Read Miku's page you'll gget what I'm referencing). Also, every time Producer releases a more impressive song then the last one, the line moves on what makes a good song. :I will note there are producers on youtube who have over a 100 songs and all are as badly tuned as the next. These are the producers who run off 10 songs just so they exist, rather then spend time making 1 song that is good. But basically, if the prodcuer has no work with good mixing or tuning, then they aren't quality enough. :We'll discuss this as well here, some of this is mostly opinions. One-Winged Hawk 16:05, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :Talking about "likes" and "dislikes". This fandom's logic runs like this (majority?): :My favorite Vocaloid is singing = good. :No matter how horrible it is. It will always be good. (I know this because I read YT comments. Only a few say their minds on what "horrible" quality it is :-/) :Bad & good are kinda relative... Means lots of things. One day someday someone else might say songs I think bad are actually good to them. Unknown.System 16:22, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :::Thats mostly the problem with dfefining quality, however, "repitching" pretty much can go on the list of "bad" quality since involves destroying lots of layers of the song most don't even realise they are doing, biggest factor being the base line. At least if the entire songs repitched. One-Winged Hawk 16:30, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :::Then if it's like that, I know what's good and what's not. Unknown.System 00:33, May 8, 2012 (UTC) Also, there are cases of "dead pages". Producers there, but no one's updating their pages for ages (unless they've retired). Not really a big of a deal, but, I think "be responsible with your pages" is a must? Unknown.System 16:04, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :If their works still on-line, they can remain inactivate for a long time and still be counted. I know theres been some issues on UTAU and fanfiction wikia, but I see no problems having these pages here. One-Winged Hawk 16:07, May 7, 2012 (UTC) ::Also, sometimes prodcuers who remain inactivate for a long time can return without warning. Sometimes their inactivity is due to life getting in the way or their working on big projects. One-Winged Hawk 16:08, May 7, 2012 (UTC) ::My rule on "present" / "active" is within a year and that's that. Twitter's a good source. ::I know that, what I mean, no one's updating some of the producer pages... Problem is people might not realize they've uploaded a work in the first place. I was thinking of making some kind of template saying "this page is updated with information" but, meh, that's a different topic. Unknown.System 16:22, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :::This area needs more editors who focus on making Producer pages. But with a lot of producers and not enough editors, we're having trouble keeping up. The wikia is getting busier though. One-Winged Hawk 16:27, May 7, 2012 (UTC) :::Yes, more editors... :::It's a bit complex at first sight, really. Heck, I've been looking up CSS and HTML since the 5th grade but the source mode here used to freeze my head and eyes. Or maybe it's just me? Unknown.System 16:31, May 7, 2012 (UTC) On the quality issue, I KNOW this is on purpose to make it funny (and it is). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23_a4AYQ4eE I'm just noting it to give everyone a thought on the matter of "quality" since its a good example of showing all the things needed to be touched on. One-Winged Hawk 21:55, May 7, 2012 (UTC) ... What did I just watch.... But, as long as it's for entertainment purposes it's not that bad. (And by not bad I mean it's funny) Unknown.System 00:33, May 8, 2012 (UTC) :Copy/paste from "candidates for deletion" :I don't mind if an active produce creates page for themselves as long as said producer is indeed creating original/cover songs involving Vocaloid. Plus there are times when we get the information incorrect and the producer should have the ability to correct the page about themselves. -- Bunai82 (talk) 02:28, May 8, 2012 (UTC) :I honestly don't care who adds the page because the point why it's there in the first place is, well to display said information. And who's more accurate on info than the person itself? :As an example, I've seen a lot of "he / she" problems... Of course we'll never know unless that producer said so. Unknown.System 02:36, May 8, 2012 (UTC) ::Erm... Er... Bunai, Unknown... They can do that any time; once the page is on the wikia is open game for anyone to correct. This is a wikia "anyone can edit". Though the "must not create own page" is more anti-abuse/spam and standards/clerkical checking, once any page is up theres no restrictions unless we get issues like constant vandalism. If anything, if the user is willing to ask for it to be set up, all we need to do is add the page layout and let them fill in the details. You two are over complicating this. ;-) ::I prefer to avoid genders by use of "they/their", "producer", "whose" if the gender isn't known. Then again in the whole time I've been here, I've prob only set up two Producer pages and they were english speakers. Adding Japanese P's is something I can't do well, as I found out the one time I did attempt it. One-Winged Hawk 10:43, May 8, 2012 (UTC) ::... I'm starting to see your point. Somewhat. It goes back to the "standard / quality" question, really. >_< ::I always use "he". Because in general, it's he. Like how illustrators in general are "she". ::I think YT producers are a drag to write down since you have to click everything to figure out their dates. Mylist makes everything better, but maybe it's just me. I only add YT cover producers anyway... Unknown.System 11:25, May 8, 2012 (UTC)